Brad

Beam forming Antennas

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Does RF Elements have plans to release beam forming sector antennas for the upcoming release of radios like the ePMP 2000?

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Guest Mike

Dear Brad,

ePMP 2000 radio is not available on a market and it was not even officially introduced yet so let's wait for more info.

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Ok, so here's a new one; Is RF Elements going to develope a 4x4 sector? 

Mimosa has its A5c 4x4 radio on the market now and its only a matter of weeks before they say their beam forming firmware will come out. 

To make full use of that and coming Mu-Mimo 4x4 sectors are the best to work with but so far  only one US based manufacturer makes these...... 

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You can use two 2x2 horns with one mimosa A5c. Check on facebook or shoot us PM if you need references to some WISPs who already use it. 

I would in any case first test the setup with horns before do any conclusions or comments of particular competitive antennas or Mu-MiMo/4x4/etc setup..

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On 30/12/2016 at 2:06 AM, MimCom said:

4x4 depends on spatial diversity, so two horns with sufficient lateral separation should easily outperform a "pile-o-patches" panel antenna.

I don't know if both the designers of these antennas do agree on this..

https://www.kpperformance.ca/product_documents/get/document/id/255/

http://www.mtiwe.com/?CategoryID=228&ArticleID=498&SearchParam=MT-464042%2FND%2FB

Since Mimosa is aiming at dense urban developments with small cells I presume the principle of lateral separation is not such a big issue....

How a setup comparison between two same direction fit 13dBi horns would perform against one of the above mentioned.... I don't know. RF elements starts with a lag of 4dB.

Off course the horns are well designed, but that doesn't mean the others are poor.

 

I do fully agree that another usage of the A5c is with 2 x 2x2Mimo sectors or horns. This way only one radio can serve 2x 60 or 2x 90 or even 2x120 degree sectors to achieve a wide coverage all in range of one single radio. Off course top PYI's will be lower and MU-Mimo only works where both sort of overlap. But for many migrating operators this still gives a great achievement compared towards the standard 802.11 stuff out on the market now. 

I am planning a setup where a A5c will server one 15dBi 120degree sector beside one 30degree horn that has to reach some clients in a corner double the distance as the clients on the 120 sector. In our setup with actuall 2 A5c's with 3 RF Element's carrier class sectors and this one 30 degree horn we hope to reach 125 clients with only two 80Mhz wide channels and still deliver them 50Mbps with tops to 100Mbps. 

 

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On 1/4/2017 at 7:42 PM, wirelessrudy said:

I don't know if both the designers of these antennas do agree on this..

https://www.kpperformance.ca/product_documents/get/document/id/255/

http://www.mtiwe.com/?CategoryID=228&ArticleID=498&SearchParam=MT-464042%2FND%2FB

Since Mimosa is aiming at dense urban developments with small cells I presume the principle of lateral separation is not such a big issue....

How a setup comparison between two same direction fit 13dBi horns would perform against one of the above mentioned.... I don't know. RF elements starts with a lag of 4dB.

Off course the horns are well designed, but that doesn't mean the others are poor...

 

Even if they disagree, it is about everything they can do with it. MimCom expressed it exactly right.

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On 1/4/2017 at 11:42 AM, wirelessrudy said:

we hope to reach 125 clients with only two 80Mhz wide channels and still deliver them 50Mbps with tops to 100Mbps.

50-100mbit service plans should be quite workable on 30 MHz channels.  If you gave me 160 MHz to play with (and depending on the layout) I would use a larger number of horns with more AP radios rather than wider channels on wider antennae.

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16 hours ago, MimCom said:

50-100mbit service plans should be quite workable on 30 MHz channels.  If you gave me 160 MHz to play with (and depending on the layout) I would use a larger number of horns with more AP radios rather than wider channels on wider antennae.

You live in an utopia kind of world where AP locations are available to your convenience and budgets are unlimited and all possible clients only have you as their internet source. Real world is often you have to do with the locations available, find a way of finance you investments at reasonable level and compete with more then 1 competitor fishing the same pond. And then we still want to make some money at the end of the day......

The fact is that although we have 300+Mhz to play with we have at least 5 backhauls and 4 other AP's at short range and within a radius of 2-4km all belonging to us. Beside that we have 6 competitors with their AP's and backhauls... all squeezing their channels in the same spectrum.... 

On the moment we are using 40Mhz on this first A5 we'd use with some 55 clients. We are now planning to change it for two A5c's with both 2 2x2 sectors covering a 360 sector again but it needs to deal with 120+ clients.. It will 'steal' clients from my other Mikrotik AP's (and maybe some from other operators) so we hope in the near future to remove 1 AP.

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On 1/7/2017 at 11:33 AM, wirelessrudy said:

You live in an utopia kind of world where AP locations are available to your convenience and budgets are unlimited and all possible clients only have you as their internet source........We are now planning to change it for two A5c's with both 2 2x2 sectors covering a 360 sector again but it needs to deal with 120+ clients.. It will 'steal' clients from my other Mikrotik AP's (and maybe some from other operators) so we hope in the near future to remove 1 AP.

MimCom is making good point on how to approach as in general. It works very well in hundreds of installations. The wider beam / higher antenna gain / more side lobes you go, the more issues you cause to yourself and to others.

If you can share site info with us, we can advise you what to do. Otherwise it will be generic discussion without much value for you at the end. If you prefer to take it offline, shoot PM to Mike or me.

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